I was told recently that Demon Hunter spam is a superior Mishima build and it is beyond balance. I decided to write few words why I disagree and why I personally does not like this build at all.
Here is a version of it:
Hamasaki Taro, Kakushi No Shomei
Shryio-X
5 ronin samurai, Hakai-tekina Yogan no Chikara5 ebon guard, Hakai-tekina Yogan no Chikara
4 Demon Hunters w/HMG
4 Demon Hunters w/HMG
4 Demon Hunters w/HMG
2 Demon Hunters w/flamer
This is a 22 model list built around 2 activations responsible for dealing all the damage.
There is my combined-arms list I would use on a tournament (with Mule as mule is my recent "to test" unit):
Bushido Master
5 Ebon Guard, +1WP, Ushi no Pawa
8 Ashigaru, 2 mortar teams, Ronin SC, Hakai-tekina Yogan no Chikara
10 Crimson Devils, 2x HMG, Ki generator4 Shadow Walkers
This is a 22 model list built around 2 activations responsible for dealing all the damage.
There is my combined-arms list I would use on a tournament (with Mule as mule is my recent "to test" unit):
Bushido Master
5 Ebon Guard, +1WP, Ushi no Pawa
8 Ashigaru, 2 mortar teams, Ronin SC, Hakai-tekina Yogan no Chikara
10 Crimson Devils, 2x HMG, Ki generator4 Shadow Walkers
3 Dragonbikes, 3xHMG, Kakushi no Shomei
2 Kunshu Dragonriders, Sai no Kawa, Batta no Choyaku1x CTL-422 Mule AC, open-toped
This is a 37 model list with both shooting unit, close combat units and several alternative attack types (gas, poison, pionic).
Know Your Enemy
Demon Hunter list is all about 2 big squads of hunters attacking from flank. One of them might be supported by Taro (to benefit from heal (8) right away). Shyrio-X is more a lone wolf so his activation is not as massive as 4 HMG ones. Demon Hunters have a RS14 and Taro's HMG does it's tricks only at 8" so the main goal for them is to shoot without cover and at close range. Cover and/or long range gives -6 to hit which is a bad sign for them.
We must also remember Flank cost 1AP per model so Demon Hunters can not just flank, move and shoot... Even they kind of need to to get position. Flank cost DH resources they will not use on extra shots. Also any flank has to deploy all its models along a chosen table edge or quarter. This means they will either deploy clumped up on Your quarters (left/right half of a table edge close to Your DZ) where they will be in range of Your sentry-charges or on theirs - far away. If so they will not have a clean line of sight on a well set table.
Fighting against Flank Deployment
1. Deploy. Flank has it's limitations. You will not get changed by a flanking DH unless You allows it for example. But this is not all. Flank can not easily target units in a middle of Your deployment zone due to range, covers etc. Use it. Set counter-attacks before game even starts. Visionaries can hide behind terrain, wait for flank to arrive and then leap(5) out of their position ans rain their enemy with lead. Protect Your biggest assets by keeping them safe in a middle of a table. Set baits on Your flanks or just block LOS with i.e. empty Mule. In general. 2 units worth 600 points will most likely strike from sides. Position Your troops that they will not get a good targets (ashigaru, infantry in cover, using Evade, in smoke etc.).
2. Disturb. My favourite was of fighting is Sentry. Remember that Charge! is a valid Sentry order which can engage flanking unit before it even activates. Why this is important? Engaged flanker starts his activation with 0 AP. He need to spend 1RES to kill a charging i.e. ashigaru and even if he does he will not shoot this turn at all. If You have no flankers in range try to bait Target Priority tests by moving models from sentry forward. If a Demon Hunter wishes to shoot past Your bait You force a TP test (keep someone with Dissension close to table edges if You have units like this at Your disposal). If he will shoot You he will waste 4 quality shots to take only one model (no secondary targets within range). My list have Ashigaru as baits but theirs job is not only to be shot at. Mortars allows Smoke screens which are massive. I will just say this: cover+smoke+long range=-10RS.
3. Counter-attack! DH list if a very small force. Allow it hindered shots at You and them counter attack. You know where they will show up (left or right). Prepare You elite counters. Blood berets (deadly), Mortificators etc. I would allow DH to shoot at my Ashigaru or Crimsons (with Heal(5) thanks to Bushido) but only after I shoot my sentries (10 Crimsons+Bushido allows 6! models to be in sentry mode. 4HMGs, commander with generator and Bushido would be my first choices to Sentry). Then I would counter. Remember that players can not hold their flank to long. They will show on a table usually turn 1-2.
There are many ways of counter-attacking flanking units. I have 4 options in my list myself. Kunshu, ebon in mule AC, Shadow Walkers and Crimsons gas/HMG strike. It always depends on where Your enemy is but there is always an option to counter. I will write about Walkers later. Now few words about my favourite option. Most fun. Ebon in mule. 21"+1"CCRW range is enough to get into chosen DH no problem and take few down/block them in CC. Both are win-win situation. Fighting models in a transport is not easy at -6CC and with Heal (5-7). I can imagine Golden Lions in Mule or Banshees doing similar job. Or K-9.
And remember. If You are not able to deal damage, block for a turn or two with bad targets and set up for another turn.
2 Kunshu Dragonriders, Sai no Kawa, Batta no Choyaku1x CTL-422 Mule AC, open-toped
This is a 37 model list with both shooting unit, close combat units and several alternative attack types (gas, poison, pionic).
Know Your Enemy
Demon Hunter list is all about 2 big squads of hunters attacking from flank. One of them might be supported by Taro (to benefit from heal (8) right away). Shyrio-X is more a lone wolf so his activation is not as massive as 4 HMG ones. Demon Hunters have a RS14 and Taro's HMG does it's tricks only at 8" so the main goal for them is to shoot without cover and at close range. Cover and/or long range gives -6 to hit which is a bad sign for them.
We must also remember Flank cost 1AP per model so Demon Hunters can not just flank, move and shoot... Even they kind of need to to get position. Flank cost DH resources they will not use on extra shots. Also any flank has to deploy all its models along a chosen table edge or quarter. This means they will either deploy clumped up on Your quarters (left/right half of a table edge close to Your DZ) where they will be in range of Your sentry-charges or on theirs - far away. If so they will not have a clean line of sight on a well set table.
Fighting against Flank Deployment
1. Deploy. Flank has it's limitations. You will not get changed by a flanking DH unless You allows it for example. But this is not all. Flank can not easily target units in a middle of Your deployment zone due to range, covers etc. Use it. Set counter-attacks before game even starts. Visionaries can hide behind terrain, wait for flank to arrive and then leap(5) out of their position ans rain their enemy with lead. Protect Your biggest assets by keeping them safe in a middle of a table. Set baits on Your flanks or just block LOS with i.e. empty Mule. In general. 2 units worth 600 points will most likely strike from sides. Position Your troops that they will not get a good targets (ashigaru, infantry in cover, using Evade, in smoke etc.).
2. Disturb. My favourite was of fighting is Sentry. Remember that Charge! is a valid Sentry order which can engage flanking unit before it even activates. Why this is important? Engaged flanker starts his activation with 0 AP. He need to spend 1RES to kill a charging i.e. ashigaru and even if he does he will not shoot this turn at all. If You have no flankers in range try to bait Target Priority tests by moving models from sentry forward. If a Demon Hunter wishes to shoot past Your bait You force a TP test (keep someone with Dissension close to table edges if You have units like this at Your disposal). If he will shoot You he will waste 4 quality shots to take only one model (no secondary targets within range). My list have Ashigaru as baits but theirs job is not only to be shot at. Mortars allows Smoke screens which are massive. I will just say this: cover+smoke+long range=-10RS.
3. Counter-attack! DH list if a very small force. Allow it hindered shots at You and them counter attack. You know where they will show up (left or right). Prepare You elite counters. Blood berets (deadly), Mortificators etc. I would allow DH to shoot at my Ashigaru or Crimsons (with Heal(5) thanks to Bushido) but only after I shoot my sentries (10 Crimsons+Bushido allows 6! models to be in sentry mode. 4HMGs, commander with generator and Bushido would be my first choices to Sentry). Then I would counter. Remember that players can not hold their flank to long. They will show on a table usually turn 1-2.
There are many ways of counter-attacking flanking units. I have 4 options in my list myself. Kunshu, ebon in mule AC, Shadow Walkers and Crimsons gas/HMG strike. It always depends on where Your enemy is but there is always an option to counter. I will write about Walkers later. Now few words about my favourite option. Most fun. Ebon in mule. 21"+1"CCRW range is enough to get into chosen DH no problem and take few down/block them in CC. Both are win-win situation. Fighting models in a transport is not easy at -6CC and with Heal (5-7). I can imagine Golden Lions in Mule or Banshees doing similar job. Or K-9.
And remember. If You are not able to deal damage, block for a turn or two with bad targets and set up for another turn.
Trading with the enemy
Trading blows with outnumbered enemy is a good option. Even if we sacrifice our own units dead Demon Hunters are a reword in itself. Just remember never to counter-attack first squad after it shows on a table if You know another one is coming. It will not activate this turn again anyway. Prepare for another Flank to appear. THEN strike. There are several nasty tools in my list to deal with them. Shadow Walkers are on top of that list. They will always charge DH first due to Stalk and SP6. Squad of 4 is able to take 4 DH out is one go. How? High CC, Duellist, RoA3 (always spend RES to get 4th attack and Precision)and Deadly. Demon Hunters attacked by Shadow Walkers are basically out of the game. Each army has a unit able to deal massive damage to them in a counter-attack action. There are Deadly, CF(2) attacks all armies have access to.
Elite lists in general does not like trading with peasants. That is why You should force those trades. 10-15 light infantry of any kind should force random Power Shots and few bullets will bypass high A and Heal. Just remember. Battle Focus as much as possible.
Summary
I like Demon Hunters as a support unit. Working with others, putting pressure on the enemy. I do not like them as the only tool that deals damage. They are to low in numbers and number of counters is to great to rely only them. Razides, whole Wolfbane army, Vulcans or even Shadow Walkers etc. are their immediate doom. Even Your own Demon Hunters with flamers (deadly). They are tankers and offensive units combined into small squad which is not optimal.
Dealing with flank spam requires some experience (Espionage ability can be helpful vs list like this too) but after few games You will realize how limited flanking force is. Not to mention no-flank scenarios...
Elite lists in general does not like trading with peasants. That is why You should force those trades. 10-15 light infantry of any kind should force random Power Shots and few bullets will bypass high A and Heal. Just remember. Battle Focus as much as possible.
Summary
I like Demon Hunters as a support unit. Working with others, putting pressure on the enemy. I do not like them as the only tool that deals damage. They are to low in numbers and number of counters is to great to rely only them. Razides, whole Wolfbane army, Vulcans or even Shadow Walkers etc. are their immediate doom. Even Your own Demon Hunters with flamers (deadly). They are tankers and offensive units combined into small squad which is not optimal.
Dealing with flank spam requires some experience (Espionage ability can be helpful vs list like this too) but after few games You will realize how limited flanking force is. Not to mention no-flank scenarios...
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